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Are you joking?

 
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Do you play D&D?
I'm a closet elf jockey.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Say it geeky and proud, "I LIKE D&D!"
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What's D&D? Is it cool to play?
0%
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Feck off, I have a life!
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 100%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 3

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^_Daniel_^



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:25 pm    Post subject: Are you joking? Reply with quote

Qube Vs SEAL2?
Are you telling me that the reason Qube junked out was becuase of you lot doing BS competition play? FXCKING HELL! Qube could have been something massive!

I have been watching and switching between various SEALS and Qube for several years now and you know what I have noticed? SEAL IS DEAD! SEAL IS A PIECE OF FXCKING SXIT! I have been waiting and watching you wanxers for ages, but all you do is bxtch on the forums and make crxppy skins to cover the sub Win2.x system you support!

Meanwhile I am waiting for Qube to get more support, finally a viable ENVIRONMENT (Not a drop out GUI) for DOS besides M$ Sxitdows and you pathetic losers crush it with an incomplete system? Not even a system sorry, a bugged out reinactment of Dosshell. Qube was stable as anything and fast as hell. It was cross platform and deserved the support that SEAL had.. I mean had before your preteen interprogrammer politics came into play. Coingrats, the DOS GUI goals died by your hands.

SEAL IS DEAD! Why don't you all give up and jump on the Qube wagon - Maybe you would achieve something between your wxnking over elf porn - Either that or wuss out like all of the other sheep and switch to the archaiic kernel covered in runtimes that is linux... Come to think of it, linux has alot of similarities with SEAL.. Is it that opensource thingy maybe?

SEAL has a future? You have to be joking.
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
Posts: 1473
Location: England, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, that certainly was a helpful post, don't know about you guys, but i've seen the light.

<sarcasm>my god, Opensource breeds poor software, linux sucks, Qube's death was entirely down to SEAL not being good enough, oh, and trolls are worthwhile human beings</sarcasm>

why did Qube die? well, to be honest, i don't know, if it was so revolutionary then why on earth didn't th developers make it do something useful, granted, SEAL won't do much more, but Qube was severely lacking when it came to doing anything at all.

anyway, i don't know if the new system that's been proposed will succeed or not, but i certainly hope it will, even with the likes of you around.

anyway, would some moderator either remove or at least lock this thread.
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crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The world is full of troles, it does not need one more!
Sorry for a bit of irritation. We here arre trying to give people around the world a nice present. We must be greatful for what we have.
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^_Daniel_^



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:20 am    Post subject: Well, I posted for nothing. Reply with quote

Ever notice that when a linux junky defends the OS, they just pump out a line of sarcasm without anything really responding to the point made?
Loser Markup Language (The next preferred language for Linux!)

<LML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Markup makes you look like you know things.</TITLE>
<DEFENCE>
<SARCASM>Isn't it great that four years down the track they are still insisting that Linux will be a viable OS within the next 3-4 years? It is so smart that they are hanging on to Linux instead of moving to BSD, I mean look at the names! Linux is so much better!
</SARCASM>
</DEFENCE>
</LML>

Quit the 13 year old crap and maybe you will achieve the appearance attempted with your pheumarkup - You will look like you share half a brain with your overclocked P4 PC.

Can you tell me what the hell is happening with SEAL? Doing all this crap that Qube isn't? Lesse..
Media system including CD, mp3, midi, wav but no real animation media. (Crashes to DOS and teh midi is a hack)
Cool new GUI that looks like a retarded halfling child of XP and 2000. Skinnable, but only upon replacing the system bmps.
Small text editor and calculator plus an image viewer and a few ripped off games.. For the.. family?..
No networkjing capabilaties, not even a hack of DOS interupt ppp drivers and the old BadSEAL html viewer.. Which even if it would work would be slow as hell.
Great kernel with hack server coded into it. It uses C and will crash faster then Win3.1 on a busy day.
LFN support when provided and smexy simulated registry.. We all love a complicated GUI editory for a basic old ascii config file.
Support for 640x480x256 - 1024x768x>64 Million.. No wait.. Forget the 256 color modes.. Might aswell run Windows 98 on a 386...

Yea! SEAL does heaps... Stupid Qube.
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^_Daniel_^



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:52 am    Post subject: Ugh sorry.. Reply with quote

Sorry, I am being a complete insencitive wanxer here..

We all love DOS's simplicity and with FreeDOS now a decent M$ replacement we can do so without feeling guilty.

Opensource has its place but what is the point of programming if it is now evil to make money and keep your art to yourself? SEAL can't survive as close source and the licence blah blah blah, so I am not attacking that.

SEAL has some nice librarys to it... But it needs to be a programmers toy (like Wintix and MenuetOS) I am talking about high end. Who wants to bother with the system code when linux is seemingly created for that purpose?

Qube is closed at the system level, but atop that is welcoming of input.. Maybe if there was more uploaded on the sight then a few calculators, the community or group or person would get back into it?

Qube and SEAL have fallen to a hole and despite the fact that they were created by the same person, your community has clearly more right and knowledge of SEAL now.

You are all talking about how great it would be to have a stable kernel to make things without worry.. Why not use the Qube system? Alter the SEAL libraries and build ontop of that. QubeOS's liscencing states that much is fine.. You would have a faster, better SEAL with the abilaty to benefit both sides and boost eachother... Maybe even get into an IRC channel with the creator guy, have a civil conversation and convince him to open source more of Qube to prevent it from becoming abandonware.

This would:
Ease your load no end and extend your GUI to other platforms.
Give teh possabilaty of more high end coding to get over these walls you have come against.
Make SEAL viable and do what no others have done before, creating a simple, small replacement for Windows (128MB + 400MHz reccomended is not competition linux bois. Death to KDE and Gnome please? kthnx).

It has been suggested many times before and I could go on forever with pros of doing this. However it seams there are 2 things stopping you. Ego and pride. So the system is not 100% OpenSource and so it is not all your community's doing. It will work and it will work better then you could ever hope to get SEAL working.

Sorry for the swearing and the arrogance shown in my last two posts. Please understand that I just got angry when reading the posts in your forum.. I want a better SEAL.. I want to be accessing these forums while in SEAL one day..

Oh and as for the kernel rewrite. C++ or learn ASM. The latter would be heaps faster and more stable in a task swapping environment (Made for DOS and loves it). Check the forums at http://www.menuetos.org
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, thanks for calming down a bit.... Otherwise I would've locked the thread.

Second, I haven't really been involved in all the flaming between the two communities, I was only following Seal, and suddenly we had some posters in these forums that bashed Seal a lot, just like your previous posts. Maybe I wrote something nasty back, i dont remember, but I do remember that it was quite unnice. But i cant agree to that it's our communitys fault that Qube died, i think the reason is that Qube doesnt really have any apps (almost like Seal...) and that Qube wasn't open source, so ppl couldn't modify the code... And because of that, it was totally up to the Qube maintainers to add features and update their system.

Third, Linux is written (mostly) in C, it's really hard to write an os well in only asm.
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^_Daniel_^



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:39 pm    Post subject: So what now? Reply with quote

Ok enough about linux. SEAL is a GUI (Not an OS) for DOS...
How many semi-active to active programmers would you all estimate in your community?

Do you think SEAL is portable to a non X linux system AT ALL? (No Xservers.. At most SVGALib and also not on a DOS EMU.)

If you all piled your active projects together, what would you all have?

StarSEAL had some kind of closer-to-net system and BadSEAL is legendary.. Why is SEAL2 so incompatible with the other SEALS? Is it possible to reverse the effects of fractalised development?

What programming languages do you all know/are learning? DOS already has ports of Python and PERL... Maybe some time should be invested in creating a layer for JAVA, think of all the portable applications then.

There are soo many possible actions. Some goals are high and some very realistic. No matter what the goal is, they must be shared by the entire community. Instead of doing a linux and creating ever increasing rifts between a multiminded community, you should be doing as all small communities should/do do. You have to code together.

Do you have an IRC channel for RealTime discussion? Do you have a roadmap? Simple "We'll get here and then move to there and then to this.." Or do you just have a group of people occationally coding various parts of the system to their whim?

All of the SEAL2 community needs to bind more and get some goals down.. Didn't SEAL1 use to be used in the Navy or something? It is a pretty massive fall for an idea that holds so many possibilaties...

Please answer all the above questions that you can and also tell me whether you think:
a) The kernel should be rewritten before the libraries.
b) The libraries should be expanded to create more possible features and then the kernel rewritten at a later date, once more people have run the new system.
c) The kernel needs help but the libraries are fine.
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
Posts: 1473
Location: England, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Well, I posted for nothing. Reply with quote

^_Daniel_^ wrote:
Ever notice that when a linux junky defends the OS, they just pump out a line of sarcasm without anything really responding to the point made?
Loser Markup Language (The next preferred language for Linux!)

<LML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Markup makes you look like you know things.</TITLE>
<DEFENCE>
<SARCASM>Isn't it great that four years down the track they are still insisting that Linux will be a viable OS within the next 3-4 years? It is so smart that they are hanging on to Linux instead of moving to BSD, I mean look at the names! Linux is so much better!
</SARCASM>
</DEFENCE>
</LML>

Quit the 13 year old crap and maybe you will achieve the appearance attempted with your pheumarkup - You will look like you share half a brain with your overclocked P4 PC.


so, you go over the top, it was simply a way to indicate clearly a use of sarcasm, you must know how well tone of voice comes accross in a forum,
as for 13 year olds, overclocking and BSD, sounds like you're closer to the offending age group than i from what i can ascertain. hanging on to linux? what's wrong with using a stable, well engineered, actively developed system, built around a monolithic kernel? why should i want to use BSD instead?

as for a viable OS, why is Linux not a viable option? how much of the internet runs on linux? how difficult is it to install and perform everyday tasks using a desktop linux distro? just because you can't work out how to operate such a system doesn't mean to say that it's completely useless.

Quote:

Can you tell me what the hell is happening with SEAL? Doing all this crap that Qube isn't? Lesse..
Media system including CD, mp3, midi, wav but no real animation media. (Crashes to DOS and teh midi is a hack)
Cool new GUI that looks like a retarded halfling child of XP and 2000. Skinnable, but only upon replacing the system bmps.
Small text editor and calculator plus an image viewer and a few ripped off games.. For the.. family?..
No networkjing capabilaties, not even a hack of DOS interupt ppp drivers and the old BadSEAL html viewer.. Which even if it would work would be slow as hell.
Great kernel with hack server coded into it. It uses C and will crash faster then Win3.1 on a busy day.
LFN support when provided and smexy simulated registry.. We all love a complicated GUI editory for a basic old ascii config file.
Support for 640x480x256 - 1024x768x>64 Million.. No wait.. Forget the 256 color modes.. Might aswell run Windows 98 on a 386...

Yea! SEAL does heaps... Stupid Qube.


well, why didn't you step in and either improve SEAL, which, while patchy in many areas actually did work, and didn't crash as spectacularly as you seem to make out, or, do something about the total lack of anything for Qube, so, SEAL2 couldn't play videos, that's a massive drawback, lets compare to wintix, or Qube, no, oh well.

i'm by no means saying that SEAL2 was fantastic, it certainly could've been better, but as a hobby for the handful of developers it was quite nice.
as for this "for the family" question, do you simply not get it? it's a very basic GUI for DOS, it's inherently more complicated to install(with freeDOS), than a pirated copy of windows, what's more, it's not marketed as an end user product.

Quote:

Sorry, I am being a complete insencitive wanxer here..


true, and you have all the spelling capabilities of a 12year old tortoise...

Quote:

We all love DOS's simplicity and with FreeDOS now a decent M$ replacement we can do so without feeling guilty.

Opensource has its place but what is the point of programming if it is now evil to make money and keep your art to yourself? SEAL can't survive as close source and the licence blah blah blah, so I am not attacking that.

SEAL has some nice librarys to it... But it needs to be a programmers toy (like Wintix and MenuetOS) I am talking about high end. Who wants to bother with the system code when linux is seemingly created for that purpose?


Wintix, a programmers toy? where is it now?

as for this "Who wants to bother with the system code", what does that mean? that in the same breath as MenuetOS? with all of the system code written in ASM?!

Quote:

Qube is closed at the system level, but atop that is welcoming of input.. Maybe if there was more uploaded on the sight then a few calculators, the community or group or person would get back into it?


maybe, but that's all that michal felt like putting up on the site, he could've done more with it, but failed to

Quote:

Qube and SEAL have fallen to a hole and despite the fact that they were created by the same person, your community has clearly more right and knowledge of SEAL now.


SEAL2 hasn't really got much to do with M.Stencl AFAIK.

Quote:

You are all talking about how great it would be to have a stable kernel to make things without worry.. Why not use the Qube system? Alter the SEAL libraries and build ontop of that. QubeOS's liscencing states that much is fine.. You would have a faster, better SEAL with the abilaty to benefit both sides and boost eachother... Maybe even get into an IRC channel with the creator guy, have a civil conversation and convince him to open source more of Qube to prevent it from becoming abandonware.


the idea is to do something completely oposite to the ideas behind Qube. Qube is meant to be portable and provide a platform for GUI apps to be compiled once run anywhere(as long as it's the same machine type), it's a nice idea, but it doesn't seem to have taken off. the planned next SEAL though is to run primarily on DOS, hopefully use something more flexible instead of, or in addition to allegro to allow support for older hardware.

the last thing we want to do is build atop a dead closed source GUI that the SEAL project doesn't have any control over, that means that we can't make any improvements on a lower level than applications, and god know Qube needs improvement.

as for getting in contact with michal about Qube, i don't know if he'd be interested, or if we'd want to bother, i know kostas want to start from scratch, and he's the maintainer, i see no benefit to be gained from negotiation with other closed parties. in fact, looking at his qubeos site, sounds like he's licensing the thing to a mobile computing company, so he's probably doing ok.

[quote]
This would:
Ease your load no end and extend your GUI to other platforms.
[quote]

there's no need for it to run on other platform, unless it's for the sake of ease of development.

Quote:

Give teh possabilaty of more high end coding to get over these walls you have come against.
Make SEAL viable and do what no others have done before, creating a simple, small replacement for Windows (128MB + 400MHz reccomended is not competition linux bois. Death to KDE and Gnome please? kthnx).


we aren't competing with linux directly, nor with GNOME or KDE, and while i agree death to KDE(or at least LGPL the f'cking toolkit), i think GTK would be a superb thing to port to SEAL, no point in reinventing the wheel on all fronts, being able to build the likes of abiword on SEAL, while very ambitious would be fantastic

Quote:

It has been suggested many times before and I could go on forever with pros of doing this. However it seams there are 2 things stopping you. Ego and pride. So the system is not 100% OpenSource and so it is not all your community's doing. It will work and it will work better then you could ever hope to get SEAL working.


that's completely spurious, there's no reason why SEAL can't be faster or better than Qube because it's OpenSource, what kind of idiot are you? the thing that slowed down SEAL2 so badly was the screen drawing routines, they have been completely rewritten in the force, so that's a non issue now.

Quote:

Sorry for the swearing and the arrogance shown in my last two posts. Please understand that I just got angry when reading the posts in your forum.. I want a better SEAL.. I want to be accessing these forums while in SEAL one day..


look, if you want a better SEAL why not stop flamebaiting, go back to OSNews or Slashdot if you want to do that, and either shut up or contribute something usefull(either code or suggestion wise)

if you want a better SEAL either support the developers or work on it yourself, that's the way OSS works!!!!

as for the arrogance, it's pretty much unrivaled around here, even callum could be more reasonable than this at times.

Quote:

Oh and as for the kernel rewrite. C++ or learn ASM. The latter would be heaps faster and more stable in a task swapping environment (Made for DOS and loves it). Check the forums at http://www.menuetos.org


so, why C++ over plain C? i take it you don't like speed much, oh, and you want to make this thing portable by writting it in assembler?!!

as for MenuetOS, it's a great little project, but it hasn't got a great deal more real world apps than SEAL2 did, it's a hobby OS.

remember, SEAL is meant to be a GUI for (free)DOS first and foremost, an OS kernel of it's own is an option for later on.
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
Posts: 1473
Location: England, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: So what now? Reply with quote

^_Daniel_^ wrote:
Ok enough about linux. SEAL is a GUI (Not an OS) for DOS...
How many semi-active to active programmers would you all estimate in your community?

Do you think SEAL is portable to a non X linux system AT ALL? (No Xservers.. At most SVGALib and also not on a DOS EMU.)

If you all piled your active projects together, what would you all have?

StarSEAL had some kind of closer-to-net system and BadSEAL is legendary.. Why is SEAL2 so incompatible with the other SEALS? Is it possible to reverse the effects of fractalised development?

What programming languages do you all know/are learning? DOS already has ports of Python and PERL... Maybe some time should be invested in creating a layer for JAVA, think of all the portable applications then.

There are soo many possible actions. Some goals are high and some very realistic. No matter what the goal is, they must be shared by the entire community. Instead of doing a linux and creating ever increasing rifts between a multiminded community, you should be doing as all small communities should/do do. You have to code together.

Do you have an IRC channel for RealTime discussion? Do you have a roadmap? Simple "We'll get here and then move to there and then to this.." Or do you just have a group of people occationally coding various parts of the system to their whim?

All of the SEAL2 community needs to bind more and get some goals down.. Didn't SEAL1 use to be used in the Navy or something? It is a pretty massive fall for an idea that holds so many possibilaties...

Please answer all the above questions that you can and also tell me whether you think:
a) The kernel should be rewritten before the libraries.
b) The libraries should be expanded to create more possible features and then the kernel rewritten at a later date, once more people have run the new system.
c) The kernel needs help but the libraries are fine.


SEAL IS being rewritten, it won't run on anything at the moment because it's not ready, just leave it alone until there's something for you to play with, your suggestions are not helpful.

look at all of the other discussion topics being discussed at the moment, IRC isn't terribly useful IMHO, especially if users are in different timezones, maybe something worth having again once kostas' code is out and available for people to examine, but until then i think we need less chat and more useful planning.

i'm not saying that you should just get lost and not come back, but quit pouring out suggestions, in this thread at least.
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Amos Vryhof
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:38 pm    Post subject: Waste of time Reply with quote

What a waste of time....I'm glad I don't frequent these forums anymore.
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unfortunately none of the modetators frequent this forum any more, maybe someone would like to delete or lock the topic?
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orudge
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider it locked.
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