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A unimportant post

 
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Qube and SEAL combined?
Yes!
33%
 33%  [ 1 ]
No!
66%
 66%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 3

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PathagenX



Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 4
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 5:53 pm    Post subject: A unimportant post Reply with quote

Hey I have been cruising with bothe SEAL and QubeOS.

Looking into them both and looking through them both I realised a few things.. but lets beat around the bvush some more.
I posted this in general becuase I just wanted to get ppl thinking, not make my post a request or static idea or anything..

SEAL is a great little GUI, The apps are soo small and the libraries are very sweet. I finally got a stable and fast setup with SEAL 2.xx.11, but even that is dodgy.

QubeOS was equally as beautiful in its .. entire package and idea kind of way. I threw heaps at it and couldn't get it to crash (untill I found something called Desktop V (5) .. That looked cool but apart from adding a few good apps to my system, it just caused grief and crashes. I got that sorted out though and am using the apps without the desktop. Qube is stable and fast - No surprise that SEAL and QubeOS are created by the same guy. Man I would love to chat with this guy(forgot his name).

What I think is a possible key to SEAL's and QubeOS's success is combining the two. I don't know how hard it would be .. But.. OK..

The basic System will be Qube's luvly engine. Ontop of that should be both Qube's and SEAL's drivers etc. This will leave you with a system capable of sweet Multimedia, games, networking and internet by itself. But not to stop there. Adding the capabilaty of running both Qube and SEAL apps will boost both of your OS software array.. SEAL's abilaty to Maximise and minimise (something Qube is lacking for some reason). Then maybe you could add teh capabilaty of running SEAL1 apps (BadSEAL/StarSEAL&PlasticSEAL also if they are any different).. If that is too hard then even just a program that compiles the SEAL app into Qube, I know Qube is often ported to SEAL.

Anyone itting there thinking anything like, "It will demolish the SEAL idea/name" you can chill. I thaught SEAL was about making the best little GNU DOS GUI/Library... Besides names and small stuff to do with system appeal can be sorted out later eh?

Both of them are sweet little piles of coding. Together they could kick Windows and the need for linux, out the window!

PLEASE!!!!! Don't just read this and reply with a "No, not work" or no reply at all. Please reply with ideas of both pros and cons. Treat this as an idea and have a casual chat..

But please.. Minimal talk of SEAL3 or why SEAL needs to be fixed up. Remaking SEAL into SEAL3 is a whole other topic and it is stupid to get bogged down in particulars like that.

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Amos Vryhof
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Joined: 15 Oct 2001
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Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:49 pm    Post subject: Seal vs. Qube Reply with quote

Michal Stencil made Uniforms, Seal, and Qube. He has quite the legacy of GUIs he started but never went any further on.

(I have a list of projects of my own like that)

The biggest reason Qube and Seal cannot be brought together is the closed source of Qube...it's not available in Source Code form, and even if it was the license is not Open Source. We would be liable to damages to Interactivestudio for using Qube IP.

The second major thing is the reason Michal left Seal and went to make Qube. Seal was created and released under a license that allowed people to develop it freely as a team, it was not under the GNU/GPL back in the 1.0a,b, c days. It was not until Anton Lasich and I requested Michal's permission to take over Seal that the GPL was even considered for Licensing. Kostas made some nice enhanced releases of Seal called BadSeal (very nice indeed, but limited). Later on, we moved from the original forum to EZBoard (http://pub8.ezboard.com/bsealsystem) where things started getting a little wobbly because the community had some double agents within it trying to control Seal for themselves. Michal gave up and decided that Open Source programming was not for him. He wanted people to write the code, and let him promote/distribute it for them. After Anton left the community, I picked up the torch and moved us over to Sourceforge since it offered a central location for source files, forums, and many other services. Shortly thereafter Owen was given the title of Maintainer...which Set Callum and Julien off. The Flame wars began, and you can pretty much see them through these forums.

After Callum finally left things started getting back to calm, but it shook alot of users away. Now we are but a few left to work on Seal. Qube was involved in the flame wars as well, which also leaves most of the active developers quite bitter at the whole thing in the end.

Finally, I have an idea for the current Seal3 sources. I saw someone in the ReactOS forum posting the old "Why not just use Seal?" question. I realized that though unfinished, Seal 3 would make a great UI for ReactOS as it is developed for cross-platform compatibility, and is unfinished enough where it can start anew to become very respectable to the Alternative Windows Admin Community.

So: Who wants to focus some time on a port of Seal 3 for ReactOS? We would need to tie into their UI libraries, and controls to be compatible with Windows applications, but it can be done.
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biggyp



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, it certainly sounds interesting, but Ganesh wasn't terribly happy about the way he designed SEAL3 looking back on it, however, he may be able to help, we could always ask him i guess, how compatible is ReactOS with NT as regards graphics systems, can a port of allegro be realised easily, or would it be best to do it independant?
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Amos Vryhof
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:45 pm    Post subject: ReactOS w/Seal 3 Reply with quote

ReactOS has a number of GDI calls implimented, so screen drawing is pretty well along. They also have their own port of Wine being integrated. All of the calls to X are being tied back into their GDI libraries.

ReactOS is getting there, but has a ways to go based on their rate of progress (slightly faster than Seal currently).

Allegro shouldn't be too hard to port over to ReactOS, considering FreeCOM (The FreeDOS Command Interpreter) is used as the command shell.

Check it out at: [url="http://www.reactos.com/"]http://www.reactos.com/[url]
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oyama26
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this post a few days ago and hadn't really given it much thought, but upon a second reading, I'm realizing that you may be onto something, Amos. Most of us, of course, are very familiar and comfortable with DOS, but let's face it, DOS does have a lot of factors working against it. ReactOS seems to have their goals set in the right direction, and their goals seem to be quite compatible with ours. If the possibility of porting SEAL to ReactOS were to be given serious consideration, there are a few other things me may want to think about also.

Perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about, but would it be absolutely necessary to port all of Allegro to ReactOS? The way I see it, this would be a great opportunity to streamline SEAL's code. Again, I could be way off base here, but what if we were to write our own graphics libraries tailored to ReactOS? I know it seems ridiculous to abandon Allegro, but hear me out. The way I understand it, SEAL's graphics libraries include Allegro's graphics libraries. Why not cut out the middle man? We could certainly use any necessary existing code, but custom fit the libraries to our purposes, so that we are not limited by Allegro's development. I understand that Allegro is very good for what it is intended for, but isn't really meant for what we want to do with it. That's not to say that its not useful for us, but developing our own libraries in unison with the gui itself could potentially make things move a lot smoother and programming a lot less complicated. I realize that such a thing is a very large undertaking, but it could be worth it in the long run. Plus, are we really going to release new builds all the time to keep up with the latest versions of allegro? Again, I could be totally wrong. Please feel free to tell me so if that is the case.
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Amos Vryhof
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 7:05 pm    Post subject: Allegro/Seal History Reply with quote

Since ReactOS is reimplimenting Windows' capabilities, they are also implimenting GDI. GDI is the interface that supports drawig graphical screens and such. Dropping Allegro support in a ReactOS "port" would be optimal for maximum compatibility with any Win32 applications users wish to run. ReactOS can currently run a few graphical programs including Solitaire and Calc.

Initially, the ReactOS port of Seal would use some Allegro functionalitiy still to keep all functionality intact. As new subsystems are developed in ReactOS Seal could be updated to support them. This would mean speed increases, more stability, and smaller builds as time progresses. In the end, Seal for ReactOS would use full Win32 compatible APIs and functions. It would be a direct drop in for whatever GUI the ReactOS team designs.

Heck, we might even be a popular alternative to Windows Standard GUI and other alternate Windows Desktops.
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