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the fish,the seal, and the spider
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pimpinaman



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Fairview,TN

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:39 am    Post subject: the fish,the seal, and the spider Reply with quote

Why not put out a distribution in co-operation with FreeDos, SEAL, and Arachne? Get a "best of" DOS utilities a put out a CD/or floppies distribution. Maybe use Cafe Press (or whatever it's called) to sell t-shirts for the project to maybe stir up some buck$.(t-shirts with character logos a la linux or BSB style). There has to be some DOS magazine out there that would put out a CD with the mag. There has to be some people to team up with to get SEAL really going.
There has to be some hardcore DOS folks out there that would jump at this to not have to use Windows. I realize that DOS's heyday has come and gone, but there still has to be a niche for this sort of thing.
Is there any organizations like FreeGeek that could use FreeDOS,SEAL,and Arachne? What about school systems with older computers? Seems like SEAL could really take off if the word just got out...I saw an on-line reprint of an article in WIRED magazine about retro computers still being quite popular. Could they be contacted to help put out a distribution CD? Or what was that I read about DELL using FreeDOS and SEAL being in the products they sent out? Or is there an ISP out there that would sponser a CD distribution to include SEAL stuff?
I think some program similar to FreeGeek could really aid the SEAL camp. The DOS community just doesn't seem as strong as say Linux's support base, but it could be made stronger. Is it possibe that some of the Linux community could help with the coding, Linix folks tend to be REAL anti M$?
So my two cents on SEAL 3.0 would be to team up with FreeDOS and any DOS application producers out there to put out a distribution with all the goods to make a DOS running computer be capable of doing the same things as say a Windows or Linux computer. Keep it free of course.

A good GUI/Desktop set-up.
An internet browers with graphics capabilites.
P2P filesharing.
Music playing/Image viewing.
Office suite.
Games. (gotta have a mario clone)

Keep it small and fast. Being pretty wouldn't hurt either
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
Posts: 1473
Location: England, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

go ahead and implement it, the sources are all there for you, well, apart from Arachne of course.

oh, and what's this BSB thing?
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pimpinaman



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Fairview,TN

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:52 am    Post subject: Ooops Reply with quote

BSB...should have been BSD(openBSB,FreeBSD)... minor slip of the keys there.
Unfortunatly I lack ANY programming skills. I just have some lofty ideas. Implementing some of the ideas I think would come from those that have the time and energy invested in SEAL, not some guy that just started posting in the forums. If I could help in some way I would be willing to try.
I also had a thought regarding those from the Linux camp. Is there a way to use some of the Linux software, without having to run Linux. Linux is command line oriented, as is DOS, given they have different commands but could it be converted from Linux to DOS without huge headaches? I figured the programming language is about the same, just compiled differently right?
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pimpinaman



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Fairview,TN

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:56 am    Post subject: speaking of sources Reply with quote

Is there a DOS based p2p file sharing program out there? or will any of the current ones run in FreeDOS?
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Grym



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
......FreeDOS,SEAL,and Arachne?


Arachne is totally out of the question: Closed source = trashbin! I would go for Dillo: small functional and open source.

FreeDOS is very nice, but RDOS is better, for networking and multitasking-purposes, however it is not aimed to be 100% M$-DOS - compatible, but for a bundling with something like Seal this is not a must.

Seal 3.0 should not have a single solitare game, chess or tetris-clone before it has a functional IDE to devlop it`s own software in, making games can be fun, but it hardly does any work for the system.

It also should have a possibility to multiple choices of programming-languages, C, C++ ASM and perhaps Pascal? (fpc allready runs on RDOS, and there exits an Allegro-unit for it).

Object oriented programming must be an option.

When you can download an ISO burn it and install this new toy for hobbydevelopers on a old PC, the amateurs will love it, and people with varying grades of skills wil start hacking on it, and the many pieces of software that makes it a real and usable OS gets created.

And yea.. I Downloaded the source for all items mentioned above long time ago, cause I was afraid Seal would die and the source somehow get lost, and - yupp, I might have started drawing something up in my sketchbook , and it is even possible that I have started some light tappnig on my keyboard, but that`s all, for now.

I have been following The Seal for quite some time now, but does not want any part of it the way the "team" is today, The team needs a dictator, that all other developers must obey, and if they does not like it, byebye! This is the ONLY way Seal can rise from the dead.

Grym - an optimist. Mr Green
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_xduffy_
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Joined: 15 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What "team" are you referring to? Are there any team on Seal today? I do not consider myself a part of the Seal team anymore.. man, I hardly did it when I was the maintainer. Ok, I did that the first three months, but then I didn't have any more time... And no one is really working on Seal anymore nowadays, at least not what I can see. Not anyone skilled enought to do something really useful that will have any major impact anyway...
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Grym



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

_xduffy_ wrote:
What "team" are you referring to? Are there any team on Seal today? ...

Nope, but a while ago, it really did look like a team, at least a group of individuals that actually managed to pull the same way at occations.
_xduffy_ wrote:

......
And no one is really working on Seal anymore nowadays, at least not what I can see. Not anyone skilled enought to do something really useful that will have any major impact anyway...

Truth, and that`s why I dared to use the word dead,

However, Seal still is pretty useful, if not for anything else. so at least for learning purposes, and some of the work that has been done is in fact really nice pieces of code.

Grym.

Gi meg fire programutviklere med skills, og la meg piske dem litt!
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pimpinaman



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Fairview,TN

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:27 pm    Post subject: seal 3.0 Reply with quote

So what would it take to put SEAL back in production? Some good programmers? Where can programmers be found that would take on this daunting task? Is there some college ot university that would take on SEAL? a la similar to BSD? Who is friendly in DOS community? Is there an equivalent of the linux community working on stuff for DOS based software? If R-DOS is a better choice who would be a contact for putting out a SEAL/R-DOS distribution?
Dillo looked pretty cool, but it didn't say anything about being able to run on DOS, Linux yes. Did I miss something about Dillo?

BTW is there a p2p file sharing program for DOS?
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poundsmack



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no ther is no p2p file sharring app. teknap would be the only one that would take less than a complete rewrite to port that i could find. as for seal i loved it to death but unfortunatly no one is coding it right now (that anyone knows of) if u are looking for a good GUI go here http://pmad.net/codename/phoenix/ ask to be a beta tester.
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pimpinaman



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Fairview,TN

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:03 pm    Post subject: dillo and such Reply with quote

So what would it take to get Dillo to work under FreeDOS? Or R-DOS? What other software would go out with a distribution?
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poundsmack



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha i would take a lot of work...much less than any other browser (excetp links, or Elinks) but especialy since they are going port it to GTK. good luck
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Grym



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lot of work! yes, absolutley correct, but far less that other browser, aslo correct, But with a Dillo-port you can have a browser that could be for a GUI what explorer is to M$-Windows and Konqueror is in Linux, filebrowser and webbrowser, port one, get the other for free...

And yes, I know what kind of task this is, but it`s not impossible.

But this is NOT the first problem that has to be solved, I have for my self made a Prioritylist:

1 - some form of kernel (DOS-kompatible)

2 - a working GUI (based on SEAL, and maybe use Dillo for filebrowsing?)
3 - a graphical installation (distribute as a cd-romiso)

4 - devopment tools, to ease development of native software, complex IDE`s, that actually does ease the development, RAD is a possibility.

5 - Networking

6 - some form of a graphical installer for native software (like installshield)

7 - write well organised documantation ( hard work, but has to be done )

8 - set project free, and let the users develop all the other applications needed/wanted.

Thoughts:

1 - why DOS-kompatible? well, the possibility to use a s-h-i-t-l-o-a-d of compilers for various languages.

2 - why base on SEAL? (or more use SEAL just to learn from, has to be totally rewritten anyway), at the moment the best open source GUI for DOS, and the fact that it is working does prove that it can be done.

3 - does the installer has to be graphical? yes, and it has to be made in a early stage, so that it can grow as the project expands, I like to think of it as some kind of packagemanager like YAST.

4 - Development tools?, well most developers are not very masocistic, so self-torture by working command-line should not be nessecery, so the project must have nifty working IDE`s, with the look and feel like other major IDE`s found in M$-Win and Linux (visual-studio, borland-stuff etc..).

5 - Networking.. of cource it`s a must, no OS without a way to use networkig-tools will ever survive.

6 - The Software-Installer can very well be the same as the system use to install it self, a packagemanager, but it has to be as easy to use as eg. installshield, click and run, How many people has given up installing software on their linux-box, just because it had to be done by Commandline?

7 - Any softare that has non or bad documentation gets very popular, only exceptions must be where it is so self-explaining that doc`s are not nessecery.

8 - when above standard is met, the system can easily be be a popular object for further development, user can add new feautures, applications can be made and/or ported, and : HEY WHAT Do U C? it lives, and does not die and get forgotten.

edit: some dyslectic bugs fixed. Mr Green
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XIXWYRMEXIX



Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i personally agree grym... i too have followed seal for a little while... im downloading the sources soon and will also begin tapping a bit on the keyboard soon...
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pimpinaman



Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 11
Location: Fairview,TN

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:42 am    Post subject: IDE?? Reply with quote

Hmmm sounds like you are implementing a plan to turn SEAL into more than just a GUI for DOS...sounds like an entirely different OS...just from what I'm reading here it looks like a windows fighter a la 3.11 era. I GUI, a browser, etc...
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XIXWYRMEXIX



Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not exactly an entirely different os pimp... just a shell gui that allows some modern features... features that are needed in todays computer user world based on an older os... and features that can all be run from inside the standard gui shell in addition to all the cool dos proggies... as well as the native apps that can be developed... and with a much better interface than win3.1... not inconcievable and if done well it could be small and fast and more than capable of running on an older machine... and as grym stated if nothing else it would inspire hobbyists and be a great learning curve for some people as well as actually being useful...
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