SEAL

Fenix*NBK* · Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 28

Those cross-platform libraries will be used later in order to build a VM-like technology (VM=Virtual Machine) It must have the following:

1) All official version *MUST* be backwards compatible.
2) The binary, once built *WILL* run on any supported platform unmodified. (That's a bad idea to recompile everything everytime)
3) The API must be very powerful, convenient.
(Besides Open-Source community needs something like C#, .NET,)

I don't say that it's a one day work. It's much longer than that.
We can start from simple *abstract things* like cross-platform
2D graphics, data types and simple windowing.

4) It must be stable. By meaning stable I mean managed code.
No unsafe pointers like in C/C++.

I want to stop the whole crazzy thing about compiling once for MAC, then for Windows, then for Red Hat, then for Debian...
===============================================
Today, my AAuto2D engine has cross-platform 2D graphics (hi-level),
and some data-types. (It's not yet licensed, but if it comes to Seal3 development I can license it with GPL)

But since it's built with C++, it's:
a) unsafe code
b) must be recompiled with each platform to run

crashfourit · Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Posts: 43

Unless you use omthing like Java, you will have too recompile for differnt prossesor families.
(sorry for spelling)
I sujest that we impliment standerd C library for Seal.

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biggyp · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:44 pm Post subject:

Fenix*NBK* · Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 28

Yes. Something like Java. (but with C++ like syntax)
One question here: Why don't I see "serious apps" built for Java.

For Example: OpenOffice.
If it was for Java, then if we port Java to seal, all it's apps will run too.
What problems does Java have?

speed?
license?
extreme difficulty of porting Java to seal?
is there an OpenSource alternative to Java?

Fenix*NBK* · Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 28

Anyway, we could try to implement something like Java in Idea,
but OpenSource, GPL, and with C++ syntax.
It would be great just to *port* that one VM to Seal and *get* everything else.

Fenix*NBK* · Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 28

Please don't get angry on me, but really, for a new OS, a deployment of Java-like machine can be critical, because then we'll get a tons of new software, without writing it on Seal.

Otherwise everything must be made from scratch.
In our case Java isn't bad idea.

Fenix*NBK* · Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 28

Will it be possible to use C#, .NET with Seal in the future?

Grym · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 18

_xduffy_ · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 7:43 am Post subject:

Fenix*NBK*: I really hope you can take this right, but; Shut up! Don't post 3 posts after eachother and stop repeating the same thing over and over again. ok? No offense meant, but you have to calm down a little.

To implement java for Seal, sure do it, but its a stupid idea, at least for now. We are just seeing the dawn of new development of Seal itself which really needs it, we aren't like 50 programmers here, there are 1 outspoken (kostas) and maybe some others hanging around and thinking about what to do (myself and maybe others). Realize that Java is slow compared to native code, especially on older hardware, which is the main target for Seal.

Programs that are well-written in C and C++ wont take too much effort to port to Seal, at least not the ones that aren't huge. And by the way, please mention the great apps in Java that we need? A wordprocessor, an internet browser, mail app and more is what we need, and those things are better to implement ourselves or port existing ones from Linux. They will run much much faster on old hw.
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BadSector · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:19 am Post subject:

@Fenix:
There is an "edit" feature in these forums dude

.

Well, there are "serius" applications for Java. There are word processors and such tools. Also there are development tools like Sun's JavaOne and Borland's JBuilder. Also i think that IBM's Visual Age is made in Java (VAge is a very nice programming tool that puts the RAD standards way far and lets you write programs without or almost writing code).

However think that Java is mostly for network applications. So you'll find one office-like program for one hundred (100) network programs. Also there are some nice games written in Java. Again, Java is needed for web support.

And there is a GPL Java virtual machine: Kaffe, http://www.kaffe.org/. We just have to port Kaffe to SEAL3

.

Well, i'll leave that to someone else (Fenix?

)
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Grym · Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 18

BadSector · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:47 am Post subject:

if you think that hundeds of applications will be available to SEAL3 if a Java VM is available for it, then i think that it won't be bad at all

.
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biggyp · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:09 am Post subject:

hmmm, wonder how that Java version of OO.o is...
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_xduffy_ · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:45 am Post subject:

Sorry for being so hard. I am not against having a Java vm for Seal, not at all, it's just that someone have to do it and it wont be me and maybe not Kostas either... It will take a lot of effort to make Kaffe really usable under Seal...
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Fenix*NBK* · Joined: 29 Nov 2003 Posts: 28

I am sorry for posting that much.

please don't get angry on me. Just I was "thinking" in this forum,
instead of post only the "results".

While it comes to me, my knowledge really disallows me to port a major app like Java VM to Seal.
But I will stay on-line.