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The Force -> SEAL = SEAL 3 (propose)
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
Posts: 1473
Location: England, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I would like to say, however, that I am highly offended by Phil's comments regarding my presence on this project. Phil, if you are reading this, I feel you are taking a very unfair stance on my work here. To begin with, I took this position because no one else, including you, was willing to do it. I thought that perhaps I could be of some service to a program that I felt had a lot of potential. However, in my time here, nothing productive has really happened, and I don't feel that all of that falls on me. I made an effort to encourage new work, and even spent a great deal of my time trying to recruit more programmers to help with the coding. I have been nothing less than friendly and fair in my time here, and I don't think I deserve to be disrespected like that. Everyone else here has made me feel quite welcome and appreciated, and I thank you all for that.


well, i'm sorry you feel offended, but if you'd posted more frequently than you have recently i may not have been so honest, but, since you were the maintainer who was going to be making big things happen around here i have been very disapointed. i never refused the position point blank(IIRC), but was convinced by yourself and some of the other lurkers, who were incredibly enthusiastic about your presence, to let the new guy give it a go. and i expected the maintainer to be fairly active i'm afraid, even if the SF servers are suffering a little.

so, the progress since you started has got to me a little, anyway, i'm very pleased that Kostas has come back, and also that there's some new attention, and i hope you'll stick around and offer any advice that you have to share.

back to the matter in hand, good luck everyone, it's great to have developers back here again
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crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be wise to have sub-mantainers that over-see spicific parts of Seal.
I.e. one for the kernel, one for the gui, one for apps that come with seal, and etc.

(although English is may native laguage my spelling can get horible )
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oyama26
Maintainer


Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 67
Location: Watsontown, PA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's cool, Phil. No hard feelings. When I first signed on, I was posting several times a day, but eventually it got to the point where no one was replying to my posts and sometimes there weren't any posts at all for days. It got a bit frustrating and I did start to lose interest a bit. After that, the frequency of my posting did slow down. Regardless, I'm glad to see that things should be moving forward now and I think that crashfourit's sub-maintainer idea (which has been raised here before) is a good one. In fact, I believe that I suggested such a concept when I was getting started, but there weren't really enough people involved at the time to make that a reality. I would be interested in taking part in something like that, as long as things move forward as expected and we can get some work done.

Can't wait to get to work,

Shayne Parrish
oyama26
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crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to iron out who is doing what, and get it done. If we are going to do this project we need to get after it. There is no sence talking forever and not getting things done.

Also, it may be a strech, we might consider forming a nonprofit org for the peropose of developing Seal software.
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Fenix*NBK*



Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. There is one Free organization the FSF.
And we CAN use their works. (OpenOffice, GIMP, ... whatever),
but not now. Now we need an OS.

If you think that FSF isn't enough, they you can try to build another organization. But why?
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BadSector
Administrator


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i need username/password/etc for SEAL's site, this forum, etc. Anyone who has them, send them to b4sector-spamblockerforcrawlers !]at[! netscape .dotty. net (figure out the address and please don't post it).

i'll do some stuff on putting 'jobs' to those who want them. For now, i want to hear what anyone wants and what knows. Personally i'll do:
a) the kernel (which includes the low level gui)
b) the standard widgets

i need people for:

c) the desktop. Use Bad Seal's desktop as a reference for the appearance (but don't use the code since it's one of my first C programs -yeah, i learned C because of SEAL - and it's not good for real usage).
d) a full-featured file exporer (The Force has a small 'explorer-like' program which can be used as a base). Use Konqueror's file manaer as a reference. Don't try to implement HTML, since we'll use Gecko later and it will not be a good idea to have more than one HTML engines.
e) a notepad-like text editor
f) utilities like calculator, image viewer, etc.

don't start coding right now. For some things (f.e. the explorer) you may have to do a bit of reasearch, but don't write code. When i'll release the first public version, a API will be ready for you. Note that the API will be totally different than the current SEAL api. Talking about release, SEAL will be released in four versions:

1. full SEAL (end users)
--> will include SEAL kernel, the desktop and the basic libraries. Anything extra will be available from the site in an 'application area'.
2. light SEAL for slow computers (end users)
--> will include SEAL kernel, the desktop and the basic libraries, but only drivers that allow SEAL to run in older computers. Again anything extra will be available from the site. Probably in the first version this will be the same as the full SEAL.
3. SEAL for Developers
--> will include the same as full SEAL, plus headers and development tools. When console is fully supported in the kernel, GCC will be ported to SEAL console and will included in this distribution.
4. SEAL source code
--> will include the source code for everything in full SEAL distribution.

Note that extra application (f.e. if you make a database program, it will be an 'extra application') will be placed in a separate section of the site. The archive for GPL/LGPL programs will have a specific form, just for having everything to be the same (this is very important!).


Now i have some bad news. I've got a new computer. It's specs are: Athlon64 3200+, DDR 512MB 400Mhz, Serial ATA HDD 80GB, GFX Card GeForceFX 5950 Ultra and nForce3 mainboard. This itself is not bad (obviously i'm very happy about it ). However the bad thing is that it will be a bit late to set up a programming environment for SEAL, since i'll need to set up a separate partition, etc. Also i had problems making Windows XP and Linux to find my hard disk drive (which is not IDE, but SATA which means that it is different) and i'm afraid that i'll have problems booting FreeDOS too. If everything goes nice, then i'll have a very fast programming enviroment and already have four PCs for testing SEAL: a) the Athlon64 for high-end systems, b) PII333/GeForce2ti for medium systems, c) PMMX200/S3 Virge for low-end systems and d) Olivetti Pentium 100Mhz portable computer for very low end systems . My goal is to make SEAL3 run as smooth as possible in these four systems (it won't be that hard for the first one ).

However, if you also think that at 27.12.2003 i'll fly for Athens for one-two weeks, expect SEAL 3 to announced late. Except if i manage to set it up before 27.12. Note that i have some problems with my new computer and my primary worring is to fix these problems.
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
Posts: 1473
Location: England, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, well, that all sounds good.

so, for the time being, good luck everyone, and have a good christmas!
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crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not mind writing an OS kernel for Seal.

Although, I would like to know where I can get the sources for SDL.
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crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found the sources for SDL. From what i cna tell it is simble.
BadSector: What is is the file layout of a SDL file?
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orudge
Administrator


Joined: 07 Oct 2001
Posts: 1332
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadSector: I've e-mailed you the admin details. Good luck with the new project. I'll visit a bit more often here now that it seems there is some activity going on.
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Fenix*NBK*



Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To BadSector: Congratulation about a new Athlon64 systems. I like the best hi-end from AMD too.

Now I heard you got into trouble with S-ATA. I can recommend you using VMWare, or Virtual Machine.
(The later one is proprietary, but is a better one, and if you like to try it just download it from Kazaa, if you don't afraid from being called a name - pirate... or stuff like that..)

You can compare VMware vs. Virtual PC here:
http://weblogs.asp.net/yassers/posts/5558.aspx

Another thing: Seal must be targeted at home users.
I tried GNU/Linux - Fedora Core 1 - but found it too buggy, and too difficult to use. (even for me, and I understand in computers a bit), think about a newbie - and you get totally unsuitable/unusable product.
=============================================
Bottom line:

try Virtual PC. (from Connectix or Microsoft)
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Fenix*NBK*



Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also with Virtual PC, you won't need to repartition you HDD.
You just need to create a DOS image with Seal on your standard FAT32 or NTFS system.
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Fenix*NBK*



Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I will be involved in 2D hi-level development.

But please guys, write all-the hi level libraries cross-platform,
so every developer would be able to write Seal apps
in an environment he/she likes. (so I could write apps for Seal from Visual C++, or from Linux)
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
Posts: 1473
Location: England, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fedora isn't really for general consumption, it's too bleeding edge for end users.

as for making SEAL3 newbie friendly, maybe, but only it's being installed at the same time as DOS.
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Fenix*NBK*



Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They license for all our apps and libraries must be GPL:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html

For the first time, while one guys of yours told me to license my works
under GPL, I couldn't understand why? But now I do.
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