SEAL Forum Index SEAL
The SEAL Forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Past Work, Future Work

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SEAL Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Alf.



Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:55 pm    Post subject: Past Work, Future Work Reply with quote

My thoughts on seal are Why reinvent the wheel over and over again?

Use Allegro for gfx, WattSock32 for networking, pThreads for multitasking/threading.

I would use PE files for seal there are lots of tools to work with them

Have the api exported through a fake "seal32.dll" then you could build a "seal32.dll" on windows that uses native win32 stuff

In other words make a simple gui/app toolkit where the apps just happen to work under dos/seal as well

this also means you could prototype the api under windows first to work out bugs

Probably i sound like an insane person
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could impliment more than one object format like elf, djgpp coff, dlx, rdoff, and etc.
_________________
"seal" must be in the subject line if you email me.
If you try to make something idiot proof, some one will come and make a better idiot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Fenix*NBK*



Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But .dll won't run under DOS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BadSector
Administrator


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fenix: My SDL (Simple Dynamic Linking) library (which The Force and some early versions of SEAL3 used) is just a simplified version of PE (DLL).

Of course we can make use of many object formats, but personally i prefer to stick in one format. PE is a good format, but it is very complex. If i have to use a used format, that could be ELF. But ELF lacks many things. SDL is something between ELF and PE, and again it's "ours" so we can extend it to add anything we want in order to make it SEAL. I think that we should make libraries for SEAL, not SEAL for libraries .

and about the windows stuff, i disagree. For the beginning DOS must be used for the development, but only until SEAL has it's own programming environment (GCC+an IDE). I don't disagree to use of other libraries, but i disagree to use them in low level stuff. We still can use their code as reference, however. In high level terms, i recomment the use of 3rd party libraries (for example GDK, SDL - now i mean the Simple DirectMedia Layer library).
_________________
main(){printf("Hello, world!n"); return 0;}
Bad Sector - http://www.bsector.cjb.net/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadSector wrote:
I think that we should make libraries for SEAL, not SEAL for libraries

I agree with BadSector on this one.
Dos in its self in not multitaking. you have to 'hack' to make it multitask.
I suget we write you own OS kernel that will reflect the internel structer of Seal3.
_________________
"seal" must be in the subject line if you email me.
If you try to make something idiot proof, some one will come and make a better idiot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BadSector
Administrator


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in order to make it OS we just need a very basic OS that provides a filesystem and loads SEAL to memory. I think that this is so basic that can be a part of the kernel, so no external OS is needed. But let me decide when SEAL is ready for this, because right now it isn't.
_________________
main(){printf("Hello, world!n"); return 0;}
Bad Sector - http://www.bsector.cjb.net/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we could ue a dpmi sever capable of multitasking that can run multiple program in a flat space and run other dos program.

(btw, i have an idea that will alow real mode prgrams to use the windowing System of Seal)
_________________
"seal" must be in the subject line if you email me.
If you try to make something idiot proof, some one will come and make a better idiot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BadSector
Administrator


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DPMI is very restrictive. I have 256MB RAM in my computer (waiting for the 512MB card... :-/), but all DPMI programs (CWSDPMI) sees 64MB...


We could use interrupts to interface real mode programs with SEAL, but i think that this is dirty job, since we'll also have to mess with virtual 8086 machines, etc. Let's keep SEAL pure 32/64bit code (i say 64bit because i'm thinking to make a special 64bit release for Athlon64 systems - like mine ).
_________________
main(){printf("Hello, world!n"); return 0;}
Bad Sector - http://www.bsector.cjb.net/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could impliment what i said earlier as an add on library, and i think to add multitaking to and dpmi server, one would have to hack csdpmi, write a new dpmi sever for Seal, or find a dpmi sever that suports it
_________________
"seal" must be in the subject line if you email me.
If you try to make something idiot proof, some one will come and make a better idiot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Alf.



Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a good dpmi server http://www.sudleyplace.com/dpmione/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
^_Daniel_^



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 2:28 am    Post subject: Maybe?.. Reply with quote

IK am not suggesting this as anything but maybe literature for the above thread.

Triple DOS:
Features
>Triple-DOS is a pre-emptive multitasker, it uses timer interrupts to share CPU time among DOS tasks.
>Performance improvements over regular DOS programs; a lot of DOS programs use CPU ineffectively, constantly waiting for user input. Triple-DOS tracks idle states and revokes CPU time for another task that may do something useful meanwhile.
>System integrity; Triple-DOS runs DOS tasks in V86 mode and utilizes CPU mechanisms to protect system from user tasks and tasks from each other. Application task error don't bring down the whole system.
>Control over programs; any program may be terminated at any time.
>Resource virtualization and synchronization; resources may be assigned to any arbitrary session and restricted to others.
>Triple-DOS uses nearly no system resources for itself.
>Triple-DOS is very small in size; a basic version is a single binary that can be as small as 20k!

Also:
>Triple-DOS has a DPMI 0.9 server. Simple assembly programs work (both 16-bit and 32-bit) but support for large applications in multitasking environment is tricky. Since the DPMI server was never stable, the DPMI entry points were always disabled in release versions.
>Is funky as a program itself. I was merely thinking the source (if commented well) would give you some ideas for the kernel.
>Written in ASM.

In short, Triple-DOS is a pre-emptive multitasker for DOS on session level a-la Windows in Enhanced mode or OS/2.

Binary/s:
> http://phantom.urbis.net.il/bphantom/tridos.zip
Source:
> http://phantom.urbis.net.il/bphantom/tridos_s.zip
Licence:
> http://phantom.urbis.net.il/bphantom/flicense.txt
Email:
> tridos@excite.com
Product Overview:
> http://phantom.urbis.net.il/bphantom/tridos.html

I have used TriDOS and apart from trying to get networking while under it, it is a stunning little piece of DOS hack.

If this is no use whatsoever, sorry. Just something I thaught was poiniant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
brokndodge



Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:08 pm    Post subject: tridos Reply with quote

howdy yall, new to the forum.... been following seal on and off fer a while but this new activity has sparked an interrest. i was wondering if this tridos prog would solve the multitasking stuff for the short term. i am not sure i would want to see it used permantly but if it would do the job, it might be a quick fix.

well, it's nice to see some real activity here for a change. good luck BadSector. i ain't that good with lowlevel stuff but will keep an eye on the progress of seal 3 and maybe offer some help on the high level stuff when ur ready.

i know it's early yet, but has anyone given thought to implementing the "basic" prog lang on seal 3. That might aide in the expansion of available apps.

anyways, thats my 2 cents,

brokndode
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
crashfourit



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm currently writing a 32 bit OS kernel, it will be able to handle multiple prosseses. I'm currently writing the paging and task maneging funtions.
using: DJGPP for the C parts, and NASM for assembly.
_________________
"seal" must be in the subject line if you email me.
If you try to make something idiot proof, some one will come and make a better idiot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SEAL Forum Index -> General All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group