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Radical new proposal
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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, SEAL is a mess. The fake object-oriented system used does not translate well to other languages, the code is a mess, and some bits are quite hackish and hard to expand on. So here is my proposal. We rewrite SEAL from scratch. Yes, that's what SEAL 2.0 was meant to be, but it wasn't - it was still based on SEAL 1.x. Now, this would be a lot of work, I know, but sooner or later, something like this would have to be done.

The steps in doing this would involve:

  1. Planning the new API, and throwing feature suggestions around
  2. Assigning tasks to developers
  3. Starting to write the code


The new code should be portable, clean and efficient.

Now, this will be a large task, but what do you all think about it?

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[ This Message was edited by: orudge on 2002-06-03 09:55 ]
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w_w_n_uk



Joined: 25 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this sounds like a g8t idea but i still dont think i am a good enught programmer to do much kernel work


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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Various ideas for features I've had:


  • The code should be portable. We could possibly have system 'modules' which could be linked in, so we have a DOS module, a Linux module, or whatever
  • The same sort of thing applies for graphics and sound - we could have graphics modules for specific display adaptors, and also have an Allegro module for graphics and another one for sound, etc
  • The system should be designed to be skinned, instead of having it added as an afterthought
  • A new dynamic linking file format should be used. Apps do NOT have to be binary compatible between platforms though - there should be an "architecture" item in the file format that specifies which platform, processor, etc, should be used
  • Stability should be a key feature when programming Seal 3.0, as well as efficiency and so on
  • The name might be better as "Seal" instead of "SEAL", although I'm still quite attached to the latter in some ways.


I'll post more suggestions as I think of them...

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hustedt



Joined: 01 May 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's a bit soon for a logo, but who cares?

Hmmm, I should use another font or?
It's difficult to read the 3...





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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh... nice!

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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, what would people think if I possibly suggested C++ as the language for Seal 3.0? This is only a suggestion - C is still an option!

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hustedt



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you should release 2.00.12 too
I really want to see abseals skinning features.
Altough they aren't ready yet...

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w_w_n_uk



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the kernel shoud just be a modual loader and should read a modual to load on startup that will load all moduals needed.
eg after the startup modual has loaded it will read the reg and load the rest of the moduals
so first would be allgero ect...
would make exalent for extream customization.
and easy updates becuase you could just add a plugin.
this would also make easy for people to use a differant base for skining ect it would be endless if it was like this so easy to customize.
tell me what you think!!!!!!!!!!



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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: husedt's post:

It was while I was working on 2.00.12 skinning that I thought of doing this.

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[ This Message was edited by: orudge on 2002-06-03 10:40 ]
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if that many changes are going to be made maybe we should have a new font for the number...

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Iamryan2002



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

C++ slows things a bit.. also, would't it be a good idea to make the kernel C and the rest can c++, also, howabout a nicer language.. WinTix style perhaps.. sorta like a VB style, this is only a shot...

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tobbe_sn



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that this is a wonderful idea! This would mean a LOT of work, but in the end it would be worth it. The current situation is unbearable in the long run IMHO. OK so we add skinning and a lot of new cool stuff, but honestly, what's the point when the code is messed up and unstable from the beginning? It will only get worse until one day it will become impossible to maintain and all we have is tons of useless code...

I really don't think we can avoid a rewrite if Seal is going to have a future. Let's give it a fresh new start! C++ sounds great and I do think Seal will benefit from it. I personally have got very little experience in C++, but I am very willing to learn. Maybe it will even get easier for people to develop apps for it, especially if we write documentation as we go...

Ok, so I'll stop rambling but I am very positive to this suggestion...

BTW I thought Wintix was using C++?


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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When we're at it, why don't we just abandon SEAL and use another gui???

Sorry if I sound a bit angry there... But we have to go very slowly if we're gonna something like this... The amount of work when redoing something from scratch is enormous (can't spell phil, i know)!

Look at: http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000245.html for an interesting article about software schedules but also mentions something about total rewrite...

"As I write this, Netscape's 5.0 web browser is almost two years late. Partially, this is because they made the suicidal mistake of throwing out all their code and starting over: the same mistake that doomed Ashton-Tate, Lotus, and Apple's MacOS to the recycle-bins of software history. Netscape has seen its browser share go from about 80% to about 20% during this time, all the while it could do nothing to address competitive concerns, because their key software product was disassembled in 1000 pieces on the floor and was in no shape to drive anywhere. That single bad decision, more than anything else, was the nuclear bomb Netscape blew itself up with."

Ponder this... Should we really throw all out?

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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way... if we really gonna do a rewrite, then I think we should implement faster rendering... something like what Bad Sector have talked about earlier...

Only redwraw the parts that have changed...

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Iamryan2002



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a skeleton here already, since the code is a mess, why not go and redo the parts that need it and make the other code even better, a rewrite is out the current stances... I am sorry I agree with xduffy on this issue...

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