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Radical new proposal
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JGX22



Joined: 04 Apr 2002
Posts: 275
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to agree with David. There is no need to remake Seal. I'm just now starting to get into Seal programming and was gonna start porting my first app over to Seal today, but now I don't know if I should if there is going to be a remake and a change to C++. It would just be pointless. On top of that, I'll have to now learn C++ and the new Seal programming style. Seal is great just the way it is. Does it truly need to be redone?
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm not necessarly against a remake...

I just think we have to go through this slow and ponder what is bad and what isn't...

For example, object orientation is great. Especially when we're dealing with a oo language...

JGX: You don't have to relearn everything. Got the hang of seals object orientation? Ok, then you'll just have to relearn some parts... Not everything... the principles are the same...

And by the way, C++ is in some ways a great language... and if you know enought C syntax to understand what c++ means... then maybe it's not too bad?

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hustedt



Joined: 01 May 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some logo ideas: (I prefere the 2nd one)


BTW: I agree with xduffy in this rewrite discussion


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[ This Message was edited by: hustedt on 2002-06-03 13:49 ]
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Iamryan2002



Joined: 09 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2nd one

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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in the long term, I think a rewrite of SEAL would be beneficial. However, it would take a lot of work and so on...

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JGX22



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to relearn everything...I'm not that very good when It comes to programming languages, look how long it's taken me to now feel comfortable to make just a simple port. I know it will be awhile for the remake to be done, but I still don't see what the point is for it...If this is going to be done, then I'm better off trying to learn C++ then making a C port for this version of Seal.
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owen don't totally back off... Im not saying that this Joel guy is totally right...

I just think we should plan carefully so we dont end up with too much work to do...

But to discuss this more is certainly at it's place...

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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think that we should make hooks for other languages from start... so basic is usable... since so many seems to be good in basic...

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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, preperation and planning is one of the main things that should happen - unlike 1.x, where features were just added as an afterthought, the system should be planned out in some detail, and so on.

Obviously, the code won't be written overnight. It may take some months, but then, Mozilla took a few years, and a mighty fine browser has come out in the end.

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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One reason it would be better to go with C as opposed to C++ is C is easier to interface from other languages than C++. But on the other hand, C is not object orientated, and SEAL 3.0 will not be using the "fake" system 1.x and 2.x used.

JGX22: While it may seem tough that you just learned the SEAL 1.x/2.x API, and now things are planning to be changed, the 3.x API should be a lot easier to learn, or so the plan is...

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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But we need OO... and SEALS way are not really fake... are they?

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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it doesn't really translate well to other languages... the OBJECT(blah) cludge is a bit messy in some ways, and not very portable to other languages, as I said.

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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit that only the thought of being able to do my part of the development on Linux, makes me feel cozy

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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the code is kept portable, a Linux port should certainly be possible.

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orudge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, here is a transcript of a chat between me and David just now - I'm posting it because there are various things relevant to this topic in it:

Quote:

Owen Rudge: Hi
_xduffy_: hi
Owen Rudge: So if this rewrite goes ahead, would you be willing to help?
_xduffy_: Yes, of course
Owen Rudge: OK, good
Owen Rudge: It may not happen, but, as Tobias says, to be honest, for SEAL to have a viable future, it's needed
_xduffy_: Yes, of course... it is needed, in some way or the other... I just argued about how to do the rewrite...

But when summer comes... I wont be able to much programming... well some, but not as frequent... will be away a lot
Owen Rudge: Well, for the first half of the summer holidays (from 28th June - 25th July, or so) I will be away. I then have until around the 20th August on school holiday still though...
Owen Rudge: But then, hopefully, everybody else would still be able to work on it
Owen Rudge: However, we have planning to do first
Owen Rudge: Besides, I only thought of it 5 hours ago!
_xduffy_: lol... you know how fast things move on internet

Yes... And maybe the planning will take most of the summer too...
Owen Rudge: Yes. Well, my initial idea was to plan more or less the whole API (or at least, fairly detailed, er, details of it) and then implement it, modifying bits here and there if necessary
_xduffy_: Yes... But would the API be the only part to plan?
Owen Rudge: Not really - we would have to plan who's doing what, the general features we want SEAL to have, and maybe even things like the directory structure!
_xduffy_: Yes, things like that... and the VFS, how it should look and behave...
what parts should be modules and what in the kernel...
Owen Rudge: Yes
_xduffy_: Well

You know, it's for this kind of development a mailinglit would be ideal, wouldn't it? Maybe it's just because I've followed development of Enlightenment (for Linux) over the span of several years...
Owen Rudge: Yes, there are some mailing lists, but people haven't really subscribed to them...
_xduffy_: No... that's true... But I mean, that is not any problem... people can be made to do it

If it's the right way to go, of course... I dont know... But to download you mail and have all the new posts there instead of going to seals forums is easier.... at least in my world...
Owen Rudge: Yes... it depends who you are and so on. I think I prefer forums for SEAL, but mailing lists for Allegro, for example, but then, that's just what I'm used to
Owen Rudge: I have to go soon, but because there are various ideas and so on in this chat, I think I'll post it to the SEAL forums
_xduffy_: hm, yes... Well, anyway... I think we could do it... but it would take a lot of effort... I mean since we are so few "real" programmers

Yes post it

I must sleep anyway
Owen Rudge: OK, good night


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