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Kernel planning
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orudge
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:51 pm    Post subject: Kernel planning Reply with quote

This thread is for planning basic kernel functions. This includes object management functions, memory allocation, disk access and so on.
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WinstonEwert



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean by object?
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Iamryan2002



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He means by having a kernel to control objects (windows, images, stc.)...
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orudge
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SEAL 1.x and 2.x have various obj_* functions - this is what I'm referring to by object management functions - functions that, well, manage objects.
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WinstonEwert



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, i've looked at the .h files and I have no idea what all those obj_ functions do
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CronoXG2



Joined: 25 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you could add math-coprocessor emulation code into the SEAL kernel that it can default to using if it can't find one in hardware. Also, does SEAL currently support virtual memory? If not, that's another thing you should attempt adding.
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, doing math processor emulation shouldn't be Seals task.. there are programs for this already, but we could provide it with Seal in the installation package

And I think the same applys to virtual memory, aren't there already programs for this?
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CronoXG2



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

_xduffy_ wrote:
Well, doing math processor emulation shouldn't be Seals task.. there are programs for this already, but we could provide it with Seal in the installation package

And I think the same applys to virtual memory, aren't there already programs for this?


I know there are programs for emulating math coprocessors for DOS apps, but I'm not sure if there are any that allow the use of virtual memory for DPMI apps in DOS.

Anyway, for the DOS version they should be included with the installer like you suggested so people without math coprocessors could just have SEAL optionally install and set up an emulator during the installation that would run with SEAL.
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llogiq



Joined: 05 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 7:01 am    Post subject: What does the kernel actually do? Reply with quote

Or: Why the <insert rude language here> do we need a kernel? Ok, I see the need for some main loop (or rather interrupt handler with halt on idle...oops, assembly here ), but unless we want to do threading or even true multitasking, everything we need is some library functions.

On the other hand, I'd really like Seal to run DOS apps. Not simultanously, more like "shelling out". And multithreading (multitasking is not really needed, since we control our own apps) would require a scheduler.

By the way: I have found a (locked) discussion about what language to use for the kernel, and it looked like the kernel was going to be big. Why? Speaking of OO, I once coded on a C++-operating system called Nachos (from Berkeley University, just for practise) -- You do not want to code a kernel, be it for an os or not, in C++.

If we talk about a scheduler, memory management and some small helper functions, the whole thing can eventually be coded in assembly. It's been years since I coded in tasm, and since I don't have tasm now I would need to go into nasm syntax (which I want to anyway), but I might do it if I'm not flamed down by next week...
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I for one wont flame you down

What do you think should be written in assembly??
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llogiq



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

_xduffy_ wrote:
Well I for one wont flame you down

What do you think should be written in assembly??


First, thanks for not burning me

I am not yet fully sure what the kernel should do. But the memory management, scheduling and interrupt handling are often-used time-critical sections that can use assembly to good performance and small memory footprint.
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we should let the critical kernel parts be written in C and assembler... C as a wrapper for the whole thing... and assembly for anything critical... and then C++ above that...
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llogiq



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2002 12:07 pm    Post subject: Language layers Reply with quote

_xduffy_ wrote:
I think we should let the critical kernel parts be written in C and assembler... C as a wrapper for the whole thing... and assembly for anything critical... and then C++ above that...

Yes, that seems reasonable. Assembly gives us the possibility to use hlt, which saves cpu cycles and therefore power, I don't know if there is a C equivalent - although a C function would be as easy to implement as
Code:
void halt() {
 '\0xF4h'; // opcode for HLT
}
Inline the function (which is a + in C++) and you have the same as assembly, or at least I hope so. Well, maybe the assembly version of this is more readable? __asm__ to the rescue
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you got my idea right
Or if it's easier just implement the assembler stuff and compile it with nasm and link it to the C main program...

The C++ stuff should be all the api's and such...
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how difficult would it be to port to IA64 if using x86-ASM to start with?
yes, i know Itanium and the whole Idea of VLIW computing for the purposes intel have planned is flawed to say the least, but AMD's Hammer may not become the dominant standard, in which case SEAL3 would need to be ported or abandoned, SEAL3 may well be obsolete by that time but hey.
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