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SEAL as GUI for my own OS
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DaNo



Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 102
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 9:58 am    Post subject: SEAL as GUI for my own OS Reply with quote

Hi
I am writing my own OS, DaNoOS. Now I am almost at the part that I need to design a GUI. Since I like the SEAL GUI very much, and it has a look 100 times better than Windows (really), I was thinking: "why should I reinvent the wheel" I contacted Orudge about this, and he said that was allright if my OS will be distrubuted under the GNU Public Licence. Of course, I'll need to make very much modifications in SEAL, but that's no problem to me. Better than writing everything from scratch, always.
So I've got some questions
- Does publishing software under the GNU licence mean that it should be open source? I've downloaded it, but I could not find it.
- What modifications would you like to see, as I have holidays now and I'll try to create a OS times better than Windows (Not that I am going to do that, anyway )
- how much space does SEAL take?? I thought it was about 3 floppy disks..but please correct me if I'm wrong

[off-topic] What is SEAL named to?? to the American Elite Forces?? [/off-topic]
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CronoXG2



Joined: 25 Jun 2002
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: SEAL as GUI for my own OS Reply with quote

DaNo wrote:

- Does publishing software under the GNU licence mean that it should be open source? I've downloaded it, but I could not find it.


It requires you to give the source code and the right to freely copy and modify the source code to everyone you sell the software to. So pretty much, yes, your software would have to be open source, but it would technically be called "Free Software" since it's licensed under the GPL (the Free in Free Software doesn't mean the software costs nothing, but that it gives the user more freedom).

Quote:

- What modifications would you like to see, as I have holidays now and I'll try to create a OS times better than Windows (Not that I am going to do that, anyway )


If you wanted you could add net support and make SEAL 2 more stable and faster, but if you really want to help then you ought to look into working on SEAL 3 (which is in the planning/early coding stage).

Quote:

- how much space does SEAL take?? I thought it was about 3 floppy disks..but please correct me if I'm wrong


Compressed or uncompressed? Do you mean SEAL already installed or not yet installed?

Quote:

[off-topic] What is SEAL named to?? to the American Elite Forces?? [/off-topic]


Now that you mention it, I'd kinda like to know the origin of SEAL's name as well.


Anyway, can you tell me more about your OS? How long have you been working on it? I'm always interested in all the various new OS's being developed these days.
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BadSector
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NO! Your OS doesn't have to be GNU GPL in order to use SEAL as a GUI. Take for example BeOS for using GCC: BeOS is (..was..) a commercial OS and GCC a GNU GPL Compiler.

But note here: if you change SEAL in order to run under your OS, even if you just add, modify or remove a single character, you have to post either your changed file(s) or the whole SEAL sources package. If you cannot do that, then you have to send the sources (the whole package, or the modified file) to anyone who tells you that (s)he wants them. Anyway, make sure that the changed sources will be available to those who wants them.

But your OS doesn't have to be under GPL.

And yes, GPL means Free ware, Open Source and Not-Commercial-Distribution.
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lukas139



Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 293
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one question - If i would write a library for example like ICO/CUR library that would be written by me and didnt want it to be GPL but it would only be #included in the engine would i have to distribute it with the package?
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CronoXG2



Joined: 25 Jun 2002
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadSector wrote:
NO! Your OS doesn't have to be GNU GPL in order to use SEAL as a GUI. Take for example BeOS for using GCC: BeOS is (..was..) a commercial OS and GCC a GNU GPL Compiler.

But note here: if you change SEAL in order to run under your OS, even if you just add, modify or remove a single character, you have to post either your changed file(s) or the whole SEAL sources package. If you cannot do that, then you have to send the sources (the whole package, or the modified file) to anyone who tells you that (s)he wants them. Anyway, make sure that the changed sources will be available to those who wants them.

But your OS doesn't have to be under GPL.

And yes, GPL means Free ware, Open Source and Not-Commercial-Distribution.


GPL means "Free Software", freeware is something completely different altogether. Also, GPL software can be sold commercially. The GPL only requires the software's source code along with the right to copy and modify the software be given to anyone the software is sold to. Without the inclusion of support and without a trademarked name for your software this kind of makes it difficult to really sell your software commercially however.

Also, DaNo, although it seems that from your post Orudge asked that you licensed your OS under the GPL, are you sure he was refering to your OS or your possible modifications to SEAL? And yes, BadSector is right about not having to license your OS under the GPL (which is really up to you, I suggest you really REALLY look at ALL the various types of licenses and restrictions they impose first, since the GPL requires that you never change the license once the code is GPLed).

Basically you only have to GPL your program if:
a.) You include GPLed source code
b.) You use a library licensed under the GPL
And you do NOT have to GPL your program if:
a.) You use a library licensed under the LGPL
b.) You use a GPL licensed program to develop your program (e.g. a GPL licensed compiler or a GPL licensed OS)
c.) You use a GPL licensed program with your program (e.g. using SEAL on your OS)

BTW, speaking of licensing issues, are the development libraries and headers for SEAL licensed under the GPL or LGPL?
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DaNo



Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 102
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the reactions.
I will give some more explanation about my OS, as CronoXG2 asked.
It is called DaNoOS, and it is at the moment command-line.
No previews yet, because I'm still working at some bugs in it.
You can start SEAL using the "gui" command, I think. But first, I'll need to implement SEAL. It is not my intention to bring it out for the big market and compete with Windows and other big OS's, just to try how much I know about computers
As I already program for years, I know very much about them, but this is my ultime goal , writing my own OS.

OK, about the modifications I am thinking of
- adding wizards and more things to the configuration screen
- As CronoXG2 asked, I'll think of adding support for internet
- Printing does not work very well yet, here it does not work
- et cetera (hope that is a valid english abbrevation )

Oh, and I mean, before it needs to be installed. Now, my OS still goes on a floppy disk, but I don't know how much space SEAL takes.
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Programmer of the DaNoOS: http://home.planet.nl/~esch0090
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DaNo



Joined: 29 Jun 2002
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2002 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, started implementing SEAL.
If anybody has suggestions, feel free to post it here/ contact me @ daanvanesch12@hotmail.com
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The name is DaNo, and he's got a licence to program in VB, C and Assembly Language.
What more can we say about a living legend?

Programmer of the DaNoOS: http://home.planet.nl/~esch0090
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BadSector
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GPL Software CANNOT be sold:

"When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure
that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you receive source
code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you
can do these things."

and

"You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange
for a fee."


...but you can't sell the program itself (i mean if you sell me the A, i can give it freely and under law to my friend).


and also, if the author decides it, (s)he can change the licence from GPL to something else.

Lastly, if the program uses libraries, but they are dynamically linked to the program (as most of SEAL's), the program doesn't have to be GPL even if those libraries are GPLed, because linking dynamically programs, is like executing those programs (and there isn't any licence problem if a commercial program executes a GPL/Free program).
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not totally right about dynamic linking... That is why LGPL exists... which is called "Lesser GPL" or earlier "Library GPL".
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DaNo



Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 102
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, as I started working on implementing SEAL in DaNoOS, I am now making a list from things I'll need to change. I've already found some, but you, as SEAL developers, know very much more I think.
These are the ones I already found
- Hardware Detection (I mean like A:\, B:\, C:\ etc)
- Hardware Drivers (as I think DOS does this right now for the SEAL)
- File System (not sure of this one, but I'll discover)
but I think that there are thousands more....
Please post things that I forgot.
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What more can we say about a living legend?

Programmer of the DaNoOS: http://home.planet.nl/~esch0090
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_xduffy_
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By file system do you mean the virtual filesystem or the ordinary use of FAT???

It is right that we rely on dos for drivemapping and such...
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BadSector
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm 1000% right about dynamic linking. It's simple logic! What the hell? You don't need to be clever to understand it.
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biggyp



Joined: 16 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dynamic Versus Static Linking and the GPL is a bit of a contrived topic to say the least, in theory all libraries linked to from a GPL'd program should be GPL'd, KDE and QT used to be an exception to this, linking closed apps against GPL libs therefore should not happen Dynamically or Statically, the LGPL exists for this purpose.

as for the author changing Licenses etc, the Author of a work can change the license and sell the software, providing any contributed Code is removed, software once GPL'd cannot be removed from the public domain.

thats how i understand it anyway.
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w_w_n_uk



Joined: 25 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think bad sector is right here as if i wanted i could take a gpl app make it a dynamic library then link it from a not gpl app so long as i release the modifyed gpl code to the lib and state that the lib is gpl or make the dynamic lib code avalible on request
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BadSector
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xduffy: then with your logic, Windows also should be released under GPL, because there are Windows programs which are under GPL? What relation has this with the abone? Simple.

Windows does that:
a) it reads the program's code
b) it dynamically links the program with the kernel
c) it executes the program's code

the DLL is exactly the same, but with a different extension (and a different function call). And also there are commercial programs that uses GPLd DLLs.

In the case of SEAL things are more the same, since the libraries and the programs are exactly the same with an extension changing.

Also with your logic, nobody should make a commercial program for SEAL (which means that SEAL is commercially dead which means that SEAL is also dead to the majority, since anything that is commercially dead is considered as "dead" for the majority - take as example the DOS and many Retro computers, which are been used by many many users around the world, but they 're considered as 'dead').

Lastly, as an example of that what i'm saying are 100% right, take linux. Anything (and i repeat: ANYTHING) in linux is dynamically linked (like in SEAL). This is why a program compiled in Windows is about 30-40KB, in DOS about 100-150KB and in linux about 7-8KB (in SEAL happens about the same). There are many commercial programs for Linux (f.e. the Borland Kylix, many games like DooM and Quake, etc) which are using GPLd dynamic libraries. But they are legal! So?? HOW MUCH BRAIN YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT?


Please agree and stop it here... i can't stand stupid reactions (note: i'm not saying that you are stupid. I'm saying that your reaction is stupid because you're talking without knowing and without facts in a case where you need facts).
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