SEAL Forum Index SEAL
The SEAL Forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Let me sound bad...
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SEAL Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BadSector
Administrator


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2002 9:58 am    Post subject: Let me sound bad... Reply with quote

Yes, i'll sound bad here, but truth is not good always.

And starting... how are you going to make SEAL which is a 32bit system to run in 286s which are 16 bit systems? Did anyone thought that 32bit SEAL will be totally different to 16bit seal (IF is possible to be made, since you'll have hundreds times less memory) and SEAL's 32 bit programs will not run in SEAL's 16 bit programs?

Stop wasting your time with b******* and do something. But seems that you don't know how to do something and you're fooling yourselves by "planning". I think Julien was right in this point: SEAL Community is full of blahblahers and story tellers. Let me say something that Julien also said (and he was totally right): Stop Talking and Start Working!

But i'm still curius to see you making a SEAL that can run do these things...

Really i don't think that there is any programmer here who has enough knowledge to make even a simple functional GUI (and i don't mean GUIs like DOSSHELL). How are you going to make this SEAL3 thing without even knowing how a window should be drawn?

The worst example of the mood that SEAL has these days is that "idea" (i'm wondering who started it) to not use Allegro but "your own functions". What the hell are you talking about? Do you think that you make faster routines than all those coders who spent years to make Allegro? Personally i don't think so.

Guys... stop wasting your time. The only really good programmers that SEAL has was Michal Stencl, Julien and me (this is not selfism, but self-knowledge). And all of them leaved.

Accept it... SEAL is dead.
_________________
main(){printf("Hello, world!n"); return 0;}
Bad Sector - http://www.bsector.cjb.net/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
_xduffy_
Administrator


Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 894
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2002 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wont even bother to answer you... except for one detail.

The "idea" to not use allegro is not true. But, writing Seal in a manner so it will be possible to port it over to other graphic libs instead of allegro, that is the plan. So on a normal dos box like your own fe. Seal will use allegro, and on most other platforms as well... But for a user on a 286 it may be more appropriate to use another lib.

Why would be impossible to make Seal work in a 16bit environment? We are not saying that there will be binary compatability, obviously that wouldn't work, and I think that is what you thought of.

You are always to fast to draw your own conclusions, and if you don't agree or understand, you just talk b******* about others, just like Michal, and Julien did...
_________________
http://xduffystuff.sourceforge.net/Desktop/
www.xduffy.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
BadSector
Administrator


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2002 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah ok. Then go ahead! They say that the best way to learn is to fail.

But keep in mind something: i have ALREADY made a GUI that has a REAL SYSTEM that WORKS! This GUI right now is THE FASTEST 32 BIT GUI FOR DOS that uses as much new technology as possible in DOS (because DOS is not able to use the whole power of today's computer, this is why i'm thinking to make a separate port to Linux which does).


and yes, you'll not even bother to answer me because you have nothing to say and you know that i'm right, but you don't want to accept it.

ACCEPT IT! Don't tell "yes, i'll do". Sit down alone and think what's good and what's bad. Don't tell me your decision. Don't tell it to anyone. Just sit and think. Your later reactions will show what you decided. The egoism makes you (and all of you) to say these things. But i know that when you are alone, you'll think what's good and what's bad. I don't think that i'm talking to stupid people, because stupid persons would never joined to this project. The problem is that some of them act like stupid people. But i'm sure that they'll realize the right thing. I think that can wait.

See you at The Force...
_________________
main(){printf("Hello, world!n"); return 0;}
Bad Sector - http://www.bsector.cjb.net/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
_xduffy_
Administrator


Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 894
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I most certainly have things to say. But i don't want to start a useless flamewar...

We'll see what happends... If Seal 3 one day emerges, then you were wrong... if it doesn't, then you may be wrong anyway, maybe... We'll see...

Good luck with the Force!!!
_________________
http://xduffystuff.sourceforge.net/Desktop/
www.xduffy.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
lukas139



Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 293
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BS partially i agree with you. I agree that very good coders left. And i agree with Juliens proncasting thing.

But youre wrong too. There are still some good coders here 2 or 3. But that is a very small number.

Seal is dying ver slowly.
_________________
Lukas Lipka
My Home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Finkelsmak Kvasthuvud



Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 85
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm sorry to have to agree with badsector on some points... but really, Seal on a 286 is downright stupid. As badsector said it would have to be a different project, that doesn't share any code with Seal for 386+. So what would be the point? Do we want a GUI that can compete with other GUI or do we want one for ancient hardware? We can't be both!

I seriously think that something has to happen with Seal3 soon, or that you scrap the whole idea and continue to improve Seal2. As it is now, it's only killing Seal. It will all just fade away slowly until no one cares anymore.

Sad...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
julien



Joined: 07 Oct 2001
Posts: 171
Location: France, Territoire de Belfort, Belfort

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:09 am    Post subject: BS, i think so Reply with quote

BS is 100% true.

Seal 16bits : very funny... If you find a 286 tell me i'm interressted. (i've been able only to find 386 (+387)). Why do 16bits when informatique world is going to switch to 64 bits.

Allegro: Allegro is a quite good graphic library but not the best beacuse it only use VESA in dos mode (under windows it use Direct X). Vesa is supported by most graphic cards but is not the fastest mode, real graphic cards drivers use the best of the graphic cards (that's why windows has so much drivers). But if you can make an Allegro clone alone in one year that's mesn that you are a great programmer. In fact the problem with allegro is that seal made some alternative function that already exists in allegro. It made seal slower and bigger.

About your work : it would be time to start ! Latest binary is ver old and use code 6 months old.If i well understand you haven't work an only speak for ages. stop chat and argue WORK!


My end's words :
Just do it (tm) Mr Green

----------------------------------------------------------
Julien Etelain. Point Mad Director. julien@pmad.net
http://miahoo.pmad.net/en/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
lukas139



Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 293
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julien : Finally somebody wise. Words of wisdom always make my mood better.

OK so you have been planning seal3 for longer then needed, lets see some binaries and code.
_________________
Lukas Lipka
My Home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
lukas139



Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 293
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julien : Finally somebody wise. Words of wisdom always make my mood better.

OK so you have been planning seal3 for longer then needed, lets see some binaries and code.
_________________
Lukas Lipka
My Home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
lukas139



Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 293
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate when phpBB posts twice grrrrrrr
_________________
Lukas Lipka
My Home


Last edited by lukas139 on Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:40 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
MrSlacker



Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:09 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

I fully agree with BadSector and Julien. Owen is a great programmer, the best active programmer I think right now. Julien, BadSector and Michael were the best though, I feel they knew that system in and out. I know little bits of Seal, mainly within the kernal. However, lack of help files or docs have kept me away from developing. And the fact that not many improvements have been made since 1.0f

I hate to say it, seal is dead. Bad Sector has a nice thing going on if he can get his gui to work with BFS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
BadSector
Administrator


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BFS?
_________________
main(){printf("Hello, world!n"); return 0;}
Bad Sector - http://www.bsector.cjb.net/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
BadSector
Administrator


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 328
Location: Greece, Samos

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BFS?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
_xduffy_
Administrator


Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 894
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julien: who are you to command????

There is a difference when we talk about good and bad programmers... some write code that works, and they write it fast. Others write working code too, but they write it slower..

Just look at how Seal 2 is programmed... very sloppy C code... That's the reason why we want to write Seal 3... No sloppy coding styles, well thought design and so on...

The example with the porting to 286 is just an example... It would be cool if Seal 3 was written in such a way that it wouldn't take too much coding to actually make something that works on such an old system...
_________________
http://xduffystuff.sourceforge.net/Desktop/
www.xduffy.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
orudge
Administrator


Joined: 07 Oct 2001
Posts: 1332
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: Let me sound bad... Reply with quote

BadSector wrote:
And starting... how are you going to make SEAL which is a 32bit system to run in 286s which are 16 bit systems?


Who said anything about using SEAL on a 286? I didn't - as you say, the 286 is only 16-bit, not 32-bit.

BadSector wrote:

The worst example of the mood that SEAL has these days is that "idea" (i'm wondering who started it) to not use Allegro but "your own functions". What the hell are you talking about? Do you think that you make faster routines than all those coders who spent years to make Allegro? Personally i don't think so.


The main reason for doing this is not really to replace Allegro, but to make Seal more portable. We could use Allegro, which is portable to a number of systems, but that limits us in how far we could go, theoretically, in the future.

BadSector wrote:

Guys... stop wasting your time. The only really good programmers that SEAL has was Michal Stencl, Julien and me (this is not selfism, but self-knowledge). And all of them leaved.


Last night, Callum spoke to me after I got back from my holiday and said there had been more arguments and flame wars, etc, on the forums. I now know how Julien, etc, felt and why they left. I'm not planning on leaving any time in the forseeable future, but it would be nice if we could get on with some work!
_________________
Owen Rudge
http://www.owenrudge.net/

Currently Playing (last time I was online, anyway):
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SEAL Forum Index -> General All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group